Ralph Bakshi

[BodeBoy]

"Yeah, Cobalt 60, created in the sixties by Bode. What was Peace's name before it was changed?"

Just in case you forgot, it was Necron 99. I don't think I have to point out the similarity.

Oh, and to address the idea that Bode took his style from Bakshi...
Only somebody with no eye for artistic styles and no concept of the calendar and flow of linear time could even entertain the idea. All you have to do is look at the dates kids.

Cobalt 60. Necron 99.

Need I say more?

[Isaac]

Bode didn't steal from Bakshi, and Bakshi didn't steal from Bode.

There is no similarity between the Cheech Wizard and Avatar from Wizards, nor is there any similarity between Necron 99 and Cobalt 60.

And to think that Wizards is a Bode tribute is to be foolish: the atmosphere in Bakshi's film is a mix of The Lord of the Rings, science fiction comic books, and paintings by Frank Frazetta.

It does not feel, in any way like one of Vaughn Bode's comics, nor does it resemble his comics.

BodeBoy, take some time, watch the movie again, read some more of Vaughn's comics.

But watch the movie and read Vaughn's comics without being under the infulence of "trendy chemical amusement aid" (thank Frank Zappa for the quote), and maybe you'll see that you were wrong.





"Oh, suuuuuuurre, man! The resemblence is UNCANNY!"

*edit by Rabbit*

Come on Guys We Don't Need to Resort to Childish Namecalling here.
We're all adults and, as such, can discuss these relevant topics with respect please. Remember these are opinions of others and cannot harm you or your ideals. Just treat others how you would be expected to be treated yourself.

Thanks Guys,

Brother Rabbit

[BodeBoy]

I'm glad we can keep this discussion on an adult level. I'm just very cynical sometimes and I guess it comes through in my posts. Iim just trying to put out some ideas I feel need to be addressed.

First, I have a rather spiffing Vaugn Bode library at home as well as as decent a Ralph Bakshi movie library as is available. I've read Bode a number of times and I've watched wizards a number of times. And I'd like to state for the record, I havenit watched or read either of them "Under the influence" ever.

Second, your images donit really represent either of the art styles we're discussing. The image you have representing Wizards is a drawing by the artist who created the original cover/poster for the movie: William Stout (a guy I know personally). The original cover is very stylized and much more detailed than anything in the actual movie, and this image isn't even the one they used! This is an even MORE stylized version that is much grittier than the tame version available on the cover of the videos and DVDs in stores. It looks as much like the animation in Wizards as the animation in Fire and Ice looks like a Frazetta painting. Not much at all.

Now that bird character you have there is NOT Cobalt 60, but a side character. But even he has the trademark Bode styling. Things that can be seen in Necron 99 (Itis the same kind of name even! Cobalt 60. Necron 99. Itis like saying Batman and Superman are completely different when we all know for a fact, because admits it in his book, that Bob Kane slapped a piece of tracing paper over a drawing of Superman, traced it, and changed the outfit a little. Changed the Super to Bat and left the man. But I digress.) and other characters in the film. The skinny legs with wrinkles at the back of the knees that look like loose pajamas hanging off a skeleton, the stoop, the big floppy feet, the profusion of weapons hanging off of eim. Hell, their guns even look the same. Now, if you had a picture of Cobalt 60 up there, youid see a mask, white not red but a mask nonetheless, with a black slit in it so the beady eyeis can be seen. For godis sake look at the FEET! Thatis a dead giveaway. Bodes feet were amazing lumpy pointy things that always somehow manage to look like feet, very distinct.

Iim not saying Bakshi iripped offi anybody. But there is no denying he was inspired, to a large degree, by Bode. No, none of the characters look EXACTLY like Bode Characters, but they do look a lot like eem. And that needs to be acknowledged.

Thirdly: "And to think that Wizards is a Bode tribute is to be foolish: the atmosphere in Bakshi's film is a mix of The Lord of the Rings, science fiction comic books, and paintings by Frank Frazetta." Well, um, Bode made SCIENCE FICTION COMIC BOOKS containing many of the trappings of THE LORD OF THE RINGS much like FRANK FRAZETTA. Sound familiar.

I think you need to re-read some Bode. At least half of the stories he wrote were about fairies and mutants dealing with the horrors of war in a weird fantasy /sci-fi future. Which could be a stripped down description of the plot of Wizards. How are they not similar again?

Look, guys, it's real simple. It basically comes down to this: Before Bode, there was NOBODY that drew like he did. That's because he CREATED that style. It didn't exist before he made it! And no one has done it as well since. After Bode, many people have been inspired by his style and there are things everywhere that try to look similar. Wizards came after Bode had been drawing like this for years. None of Bakshiis other films look like it. Except for the horrible rotoscoping, I'm talking just about the actual animation here. It has a very different visual flavor from his other films. It plain old fashion looks like Bode. Even if, IF, Bakshi wasnit inspired by Bode, he was inspired by someone who was inspired by Bode. Obviously, I might add, inspired by Bode.

Oh yeah, Avatar doesnit look like Cheech. Iill give you that. Itis because he has a terrible generic wizard body inserted between the half bent, star inscribed hat and the floppy feet. But, if youid go back and read some Cheech Wizard, youid see he has the same attitude. The same lust for voluptuous, nubile young women. The same crotchety old fart with an attitude feel. Go check it out, youill see.

Iim gonna have to go through my library and start a scannini so I can SHOW you what Iim talking about. Itis easier to see that way.

Thanks for the fine back and forth.

-b

[Brother Rabbit]

[LowerCase]

i've always noticed how Wizards was influenced by Bode comics, its for sure, denying that is something that only Ralph can do.. b/c he's the man.. but it was def. influenced.. no doubt in my mind.. c'mon yall..
& yes peace/necron 99 does look a lot like cobalt 60..
Cobalt 60

Looks just like Peace.. can't deny what is obvious..
why was Lord of the Rings even mentioned? I'm a huge Bakshi fan but i'll openly admit that Wizards looks like something that either Vaughn or Mark worked on.. which they didn't so obviously it influenced the artists who animated the film..
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[Isaac]

[BodeBoy]

Isaac,

I'm really having a hard time believing you've read the same Bode comics I have. What are all those half naked, diaphanously dressed women with huge butterfly wings sticking out of their backs if not fairies?

Plus, I'm really interested in how Bodes work is not Fantasy/Science fiction. You keep saying that, but you never back it up with any reasoning. Is it the robots, the talking lizards or the mutants in the future that are throwing you off?

Donit get me started on rotoscopeing. Maybe you could explain to me how tracing over photographs is more artistic than creating something with nothing more than your imagination. I guess I'm missing it.

Heh. That bender thing is hilarious. Never noticed the resemblance.

-b

[LowerCase]

r u kidding me? That Cobalt 60- Looks just like Peace.. & the only thing Bender has in common w/ Peace is an antenna..
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[Isaac]

[dialupsux]

WOW this thread can keep a guy warm on a cold new england night. I have to say I loved the rotoscoping even if Ralph himself didnt really like it. If you saw the bonus footage of Wizards then you know Ralph said if he had to do it over he probly wouldnt use the roto. But I loved it. Another person that actually animated might think it was kinda cheap tho. Next - Ralphs original sketches for Elenor didnt look anything like the final character, I wonder if one of his artists came up with her. He complemented one of his guys for being able to draw great babes. .. Remember the Punkerpan robot of Bode's ? I think Necron\Peace was a combo of Cobalt 60 and a Punkerpan... Who says Cheech couldnt do Magic! Remember his time distortion trick?(actually it was a swift kick in the crotch so maybe your right) By the way I should be recieving part 3 and 4 of Bode's "Cobalt 60" any day(done by Mark Bode and Larry Todd I think). I could scan some but probly wont cuz Ill have to bend the pages.


The below strip was in a comic book in 1986, it was not drawn by Bode (or bakshi) and is an Obvious Ripoff

[Ralph B]

[dialupsux]

Cool Daddy-o , I wonder what happened to that script ? Maybe Mark will do something with it. I have seen some panels of Puck and his "Woody" that I think Vaughn drew. Maybe I can find one.


Look Out PUCK !!! That thing might be layin eggs!!

[Ralph B]

[Brother Rabbit]

[Larry (the Mutant Slave)]

I always considered cheech wizard and avitar one in the same i always knew he was inspired by bode and i got a really good comment about it on deviant art i love it how animation is such a community
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